Monday, 15 October 2007
The Courage of Our Blogging Convictions
It's been awhile since Crabby Old Lady was this riled up, so much so it has taken her a week to get her thoughts in order.
Last week, a post titled What Have You Stopped Doing in Your Old Age? caused a lot of response from readers with their own lists of gratefully-relinquished tasks and behavior that no longer seem necessary or were, perhaps, misguided in our youth.
Most women agree that high-heeled shoes are too painful now. (Crabby Old Lady continues to wonder, for herself, if they always hurt that much and she was more capable of ignoring it when she was younger.) Men seem glad to give up wearing ties and at least one has embraced a beard instead of shaving every day.
The lists were varied – from the minor (giving up ironing) to the profound (giving up guilt) with a whole lot in between. And Suzz of Suzzwords had Crabby laughing out loud:
“I gave up wearing shoes unless I’m leaving the house. Recently I pretty much gave up mopping the kitchen, causing me to rethink wearing shoes.”
Overall, everyone took to the topic with much good humor, and it made Crabby Old Lady's day reading all the responses…
…and then, AND THEN - Crabby received a private email from a reader attacking Time Goes By and commenters (some by specific reference to their lists making clear to Crabby who they are) for being negative about elders’ capabilities, comparing us to a relative who, says the writer, gave up caring in late life and accusing readers of using age as an excuse to “drop out” – whatever that means.
Crabby was dismayed on two counts: that this light-hearted post and the responses could be perceived as negative commentary on aging, and that the writer made these accusations in an email rather than publicly owning the words in the comments section.
One of the best and most important aspects of blogging, especially for elders, is the building of communities. We do this through commenting on one another’s blogs, finding commonalities and simpatico among ourselves and fodder for new thoughts and ideas in one another's blogs.
As if to prove that last point, Mage of Day Tripper was so inspired by this discussion that she expanded on it at her blog, as did Claude of Blogging in Paris who listed several that Crabby doesn't do anymore but had forgotten when she made her list. And Suzz took the idea in a whole new direction at her blog.
The best result of all this community building is that not infrequently, we make new friends, sometimes with ties that become as strong and unbreakable as with our in-person friends. This is possible through honesty and authenticity in our blogs and comments. In all this, disagreement is common, but in four years, Crabby has only one previous incidence of it being expressed privately instead of out in the open.
And that is what is so disturbing about this email. (Because writers retain legal copyright of their email and, in this case, the writer ignored Crabby's requests for permission to quote, she will need to paraphrase.)
In response to Crabby Old Lady's emailed dismay, the writer followed up by saying that remarking negatively on individual comments in public would be "too aggressive” for her. Ah, but attacking the individual commenters in a private email is not? It strikes Crabby as cowardly.
There followed a long and detailed dissertation on how Europeans (she is an ex-pat American living in Europe) wouldn’t be caught dead in public wearing Crocs or sweats or polyester pants suits as she has seen in the U.S., and how beautifully turned out Europeans are.
She singled out a couple of towns here in Maine for her scorn of their sartorial lapses. Having lived here more than a year now, Crabby can assure you she would feel the fool showing up at the supermarket in one of her beloved fur hats, now packed away on a high shelf awaiting a winter trip to Manhattan. Knits caps and earmuffs are the norm in this Rome.
The writer heaped further disdain on commenters who say they have forsaken books and movies, wondering what they do at night, but not having read the blog well enough to know that what they said was, they have given up buying books and use the library now.
There followed a litany of admiring references to European elders who hike and learn languages and have young friends, and to Americans who move to Europe for new experiences (implying that stay-at-home Americans are dullards in comparison) apparently on the assumption that wearing Crocs, and pants instead of skirts, and giving up makeup damage brain cells and stunt social initiative.
As appalled as Crabby is at the writer’s provincialism and tone of superiority, what bothers her more are the back-channel attacks on people who are part of the elderblogging community along with the apparent belief that Crabby would be a willing participant.
That is not tolerable. We speak our minds in public on our blogs and comments. Sometimes we disagree. We can make our points, defend them or not and in the end, everyone gains from differing perspectives even if, in the end, our minds are not changed. It is one of the things that builds communities around our blogs and makes blogging so immensely satisfying.
Here at Crabby Old Lady's place, back channel attacks on public commenters are not accepted. Have the courage of your convictions and say it out loud.
[At The Elder Storytelling Place today, Mort Reichek notes one of the changes that comes with the passage of time in The Sad Sight of Empty Tennis Courts.]
Posted by Crabby Old Lady at 05:47 AM | Permalink | Email this post
Comments
Ronnie, I am new to the reading blogging world. Your site is my favorite. First thing I click on in the morning. What I learned from "what have you given up" is that much people have given up I have also but there is much much more that I am still doing. I enjoy my home, caring for it, gardening, love my books - reading them and seeing them stacked everywhere, baking once a week, walking, yoga, going to bed early and up at dawn. What I learned is that even though I have downscaled and lead a simpler retired life maybe I have not given up enough at 3 score and 10 so I am still working on it. Wish I was not so orderly. Seems I cannot relax until everything tidy each morning and by the time I tidy everything, eat, walk the dog, grocery shop or do a load of wash, computer, phone, it is lunch time and the day gets a way from me. Wonder if I am not as organized as I think I am. Kids keep saying I need to do more!!! like volunteer work to get out of house. But I love being home. In my new location near children only thing missing is some new friends and someone free for a short occasional trip. Seems everyone is sick or has a mate or not interested. Since I am only in my new location 4 months I know time will probably take care of my wish list.
Posted by: Ernestine on Oct 15, 2007 7:54:20 AM
I love this post. You are not an authority to whom we bring our complaints, problems, nits, and worse. You are a facilitator, a guide, an initiator, a muse, a gadfly. NOT a referee, babysitter, parent, parole officer, or fashion police apparatchik. I love how you out this backstabber. How secure is someone with superior choices who must diss others whose lives and decisions are equally complex and equally informed by compelling reasons and personal preferences? It might have been simpler, more efficient, less hassle for you to keep the matter to yourself. Yet you choose to share, to teach, to use the matter to reiterate who you are and what this blog is about.
In similar situations, my question often is: Should I tackle this or that annoyance/irritant/insult/ignorance/etc., or must I let it go (for my sanity)? I'd be interested to know how long it took you to decide to go public with the matter. And whether you agonized at all about it, worrying (as I often do) that I was being petty or supersensitive or defensive or or or.
Posted by: tamar on Oct 15, 2007 8:09:56 AM
Appalled!Absolutely appalled. And I heap scorn upon the head of of anyone who would disparage the wearing of 'Croc's'...
(I feel so much better!)
Posted by: Steven on Oct 15, 2007 8:13:44 AM
Well I gave up ties as much because I was my own master as because I reached a certain age. I see that as a sign of higher standards prevailing, not of lowering them
Posted by: ian on Oct 15, 2007 8:56:08 AM
Well as they say, it takes all kinds. If I choose to wear pants instead of dresses with their accompanying nylons and uncomfortable shoes it is because I have acquired some common sense in my old age. I no longer let the fashion industry dictate to me what I wear because I have reached the age of getting my priorities right. I dress comfortably to please myself . If the Europeans choose to care what strangers think about them that's their problem and not necessarily an admirable trait. We elders are not dropping out, we are enjoying the freedom to do as we please. We have earned the right.
Posted by: Darlene on Oct 15, 2007 9:07:39 AM
This ex-pat sounds like the Victorian Brits, who heaped scorn on those who adopted the dress of the indigenous people in the colonies.
I am almost 60, and "going native" in the land of Croc is a wonderful thing.
I dress for comfort. There is no way that I can have fun if my feet hurt, and I don't give a hoot about somebody else's concept of "lowered standards."
Than God that one of the things I've given up is listening to the dictates of fashion.
Fashion, smashion. I got STYLE! LOL!
Posted by: ronni prior on Oct 15, 2007 9:24:48 AM
Tamar: It took no time at all to decide to go public. The real decision was whether to out her by name and/or blog name.
In the end, Crabby decided that by leaving the writer her anonymity, she might rethink her position and whether she does or not, would be free to continue as part of the elder blogospohere, commenting and blogging without others' knowledge of Crabby's ire.
Posted by: Crabby Old Lady on Oct 15, 2007 9:55:10 AM
Oh Ronnie.......a star in your crown today....what a pompous person the e-mailer is! By the way.....your wonderful blog has opened a new world for me....I am not a blogger but read many of the ones you have suggested.......
Posted by: Nancy L Smith on Oct 15, 2007 10:00:23 AM
How appropriate that I find the infamous Crabby Old Lady in control here, after my multi-week absence from computing, and the blogosphere, except for some increasingly infrequent token topics I posted on my blog.
I had to laugh when I discovered Crabby's post, so had to read the original pot sticker that caused the flap. Darned if I could see what the problem was -- the idea seemed quite fun and harmless.
As for changes I've made with aging, I jettisoned wearing my high heels, though I still have many pairs -- a shoe collector, I guess, as I haven't wanted to give them up. Am thinking it must be some sort of connection to my past.
If clothes have to be ironed, I no longer buy them. I have ceased buying skirts and dresses, opting instead for pants. I long ago did away with a specific "laundry day" and just throw stuff in the washer sometime once a week -- but never get behind on it. Am sure there must be other things I could list, if I stopped to ponder it more.
I am distressed to read one of your reader's comments about what you are NOT -- ..."a fashion police apparatchik..." I thought you were, and that's solely why I started reading your blog. Now this reader says that's NOT your blogging function. This is causing me to have to totally re-think why I'm even coming here.
BTW, having skimmed through what I missed, I think you've written some really good posts for my tastes, triggering all sorts of comments in my head, but will exercise restraint in commenting -- except for...am glad you're making everyone aware of Olive's 108th to be celebrated on U.S. date 10/19.
Posted by: joared on Oct 15, 2007 10:27:52 AM
Hey, Ronnie, as regular blog writers know, this blogging business is not all fun and games. Your readers appreciate the time, research, skill, diligence, and dedication you put into each post EVERY day. You are making a difference in the elder world and a little light fare helps spark the creativity in all of us. However, I am going to try to be more fashionable. Since I’ve given up pantyhose, I wonder how black knee highs would look with my purple crocks and elastic-waist clam-digger pants! Too formal for the mall? P.S. Thanks bunches for the mention.
Posted by: Suzz on Oct 15, 2007 10:30:43 AM
Good post as was the one on what people have given up due to changes of age and all the comments that followed. Naturally there are things that change and why should we deny it? As we age, to deny the reality is to fight a battle we cannot win and lose out on all the rich things we have instead. When you wrote the original post, I tried to think of something in my case but never came up with anything I could equate purely with aging. Naturally I have changed in my now 64 years but have done it many times as my life shifted from one need to another. One thing with old age is we can be who we want to be with no job constraints only those society would put onto our backs but which many elders today are tossing back off.
Posted by: Rain on Oct 15, 2007 10:50:57 AM
Interesting how many people like their "crocs." They don't look very comfortable but I suppose I need to try them. I usually prefer a more supportive shoe. I substitute elastic laces and it makes any shoe into a pull-on.
To some extent I understand what your writer may be feeling. I am often dismayed myself at what some people choose to wear in public. But I wouldn't pick on elders as more guilty than any other age group.
Posted by: bill on Oct 15, 2007 11:40:06 AM
Bourgeois hypocrisy must be an insidious disease.
Last time I checked my atlas, I did not notice that I lived in the United States of Europe.
You sure can tell that our anonymous expatriate behind-the-scenes commentor is no Daisy Miller...
Posted by: Cowtown Pattie on Oct 15, 2007 11:56:22 AM
The secrecy and snobery are disturbing and so are the generalizations. All European elders are not alike any more than all U.S. elders are alike. Nor should they or we be.
Posted by: Judith on Oct 15, 2007 1:08:14 PM
no no nonononono! The question of what do you (no longer put up with), or stopped doing, or however you put it, is a question for all ages! It's a lifecourse question, and we can even track on a timeline what we have stopped doing along the way as a sign of how we have become MORE, not less, alive. I love this question - so much so I am going to use it in an elder storytelling group tomorrow - because it focuses on the today, not only on the past. Bravo, Ronni and Suzz!
Posted by: Nicole on Oct 15, 2007 4:57:41 PM
My Great Granmather would have called "back channel attacks on public commenters" gossip and she refused to gossip. I try to emulate her.
Posted by: Marion on Oct 15, 2007 7:00:11 PM
Hey, Ronni. You go girl! Thanks to you, I have started to refer to myself proudly as "old" rather than just middle-aged (I'm 66, so....). And I loved your post on what we have given up, even though I am as well-turned out (when I have to be) as any Eurotrash. We could all get dressed up if we WANTED TO, and it's not a sign of youth or age. As you know, all my friends are young -- and you should see how THEY dress. One an all, a t-shirt with a logo. Period.
Posted by: francine hardaway on Oct 15, 2007 7:57:35 PM
If I learned anything from last weeks post it was to not 'sweat the small stuff' or unimportant stuff. Seems to me you gave this ex-pat too much time and space on your blog. Don't let it bother you...just like we give up things that are uncomfortable for us like high-heels and pantyhose..so too..we give up people that are so set in their ways there is no room for comfort. It's good that you are keeping her anonymous...don't think she could handle our views.
Posted by: Matty on Oct 15, 2007 8:32:12 PM
Ronni, I agree with Matty. That person was not worth the time and attention.
Posted by: kenju on Oct 15, 2007 11:15:39 PM
Oh, I don't know, kenju and Matty. I rather like knowing that Ronnie took on such a commenter and attempted to straighten them out. I do it a lot on my blog, too.
On the Internet, nobody may know you're a dog. But everyone knows when you're being an asshole, no matter how much people try to hide in their anonymity. ;^)
And sending an email to someone to complain about their blog comments is just stupid. If you don't agree with someone's comment, say so - don't snark about it behind their backs.
Sheesh.
Posted by: donna on Oct 16, 2007 12:28:58 AM
You did the right thing, Crabby Old Lady. Your diplomacy is admirable! :)
I'm with you, Steven. Love my Crocs. And btw, Naysayer, I'm an American in Sweden and I've seen TONS of Crocs here!!
Posted by: Nikki on Oct 16, 2007 3:14:57 AM
Ronni,
You handled that very well! I too like the idea that you took on the commenter and agree with Nikki about how admirable your diplomacy is.
Posted by: Sarah on Oct 16, 2007 6:49:55 AM
Ronni,
I come to this post and these comments a little late. Wow! What an unpleasant experience that must have been for you. Thank you for standing up for all of us.
I can't help thinking of "shame" when I think of your e-mailer person. Shame is what is so destructive for ourselves and for others. Imagine feeling shame in becoming older. Imagine how awful that must be for someone. Your wonderful blog has lifted the shame from all of our hearts as we share the trials, tribulations, joys and celebrations about aging, and embrace acceptance of, humor about, and even, wonder at, this amazing period in our lives.
I can only wish for that private e-mailer that they may, too, lift the shame from their/her/his heart one of these days - hopefully soon. For it would be a shame to miss out on such a wonderful community as this one.
Posted by: tamarika on Oct 16, 2007 7:16:45 AM
Your karma is so glowing today. By waiting until your anger at this private emailer had eased into a reasonable disdain and choosing to keep their identity private and still defend yourself and the many readers and bloggers who come here daily; you emerged the winner!
The things that I have given up have more to do with giving up (with joy)the things that I "have"
to do and adopting (with joy) the things that I "get" to do; instead of with my age.
Instead of being angry at this person who wrote the private message to you, we should pity them. Imagine what it must be like to be inside their head everyday.
I'll take crocs (even if they make
my feet sweat) over high heeled shoes anyday. Power to the elders who have given up judging other people in private and have taken up being comfortable with themselves in public.
Posted by: Carol Ann Wiley on Oct 16, 2007 8:31:51 AM
To paraphrase a comment posthumously attributed to Voltaire, 'I detest the look of your Crocs but I will defend to the death your right to wear them.'
This is a time of life for letting go all those stupid cultural 'rules' we've spent decades internalizing, such as what constitutes 'smart'. And that feels great, as so many comments on your blog attest.
'Smart', after all, is a totally relative concept. If your correspondent is so keen to be as well turned out as the locals, I can't help wondering what she would wear in those parts of Africa where bare breasts, facial tattooing and neck rings are still de rigeur.
Posted by: Marian Van Eyk McCain on Oct 16, 2007 8:53:05 AM
Oh my. I can't believe the ignorance and snobbery of this ex-pat! Frankly, I hope he/she stays in Europe -- maybe they suffer fools more kindly than I do.
I loved this post. One of the things I am enjoying most about getting older is dropping baggage and "gottados". I still like to get gussied up when the occasion arises but I'm okay (and comfy) with a baggy sweater and jeans.
I do what I enjoy and feel no burning need to conform to what everyone else does. I am still enjoying learning which I do everyday by reading the burgeoning list of blogs I read and researching material for my own.
I'm not as active socially as I once was and I'm okay with that -- I've become very used to my own company and like hanging out with me.
I'm more tolerant of others' choices -- a characteristic to which I advise your attacker to aspire. Life is too short to rant and rave about every little thing.
However, one thing that hasn't changed is that I'm intolerant of intolerance and a pox on your e-mailer for his/her criticism and downright bashing of a post that I took as meant to be fun!
So there!
Posted by: Kay Dennison on Oct 16, 2007 10:53:41 AM
Here in Scotland I've seen loads of Crocs this summer. I am so sure that they'll disappear in the winter when the weather gets wet. Those Crocs have HOLES in them! Hang in there Ronni. It was just ONE e-mail. How many were written in support???
Posted by: Peggy on Oct 16, 2007 11:02:54 AM
Few things on earth are more tiresome than an American ex-pat who feels the need to criticize all things American.
Perhaps the French find such behavior endearing, but I doubt it.
Posted by: Pete on Oct 16, 2007 11:24:56 AM
I loved your original blog entry on things we give up and I love this one and all the comments. I pretty much second every one of them. As usual, your blog is teaching me something about myself as well as about you. As a writer myself, I've toyed with the idea of starting a blog, but I guess the prospect of just the kind of negative feedback you received from your ex-pat makes me a little leery. Don't know if I'll take the plunge, but I'll remember your admirable restraint.
Posted by: Audrey Vest on Oct 16, 2007 11:46:01 AM
Audrey: Something like this should not deter you from blogging which is a lot like real life - some people are reasonable, some are not. Most can disagree with reasoned arguments; a few cannot.
Crabby Old Lady posted this for several reasons: she didn't like her blog friends being trashed behind their backs; she wanted to make it clear what is tolerated and what is not at Time Goes By; and perhaps it was partly her schoolmarm gene that sneaks out sometimes - this time with a small blogging philosophy lesson.
What Crabby has discovered in more than four years of blogging is that bloggers set the tone for how others behave when visiting their blogs. If you are reasoned and fair, so will most of the commenters be.
Which doesn't mean you can't express your outrage at whatever is bothering you.
In Crabby's experience, elderbloggers generally behave better than many younger bloggers and commenters. It probably has to do with experience and having learned the hard way over the years that snark and flaming don't accomplish anything.
Posted by: Crabby Old Lady on Oct 16, 2007 12:17:43 PM
Another thing nobody mentioned: It's a lot easier to find Crocs than perhaps the more "sophisticated" shoes the correspondent would prefer that we wear.
If we wanted to be kind, we might assume she's been gone awhile and doesn't realize that despite our seeming abundance of malls and stores, what's actually available is inevitably a whole lot of the same old, same old. Now that Crocs are popular, they're everywhere. When they're not, they'll be gone, and we'll be drowning in a surfeit of some other (probably) hideous style.
At least Crocs are comfortable. And they're certainly available. For the substantial subset of seniors who don't love shopping--or can't shop often--exhaustion may trump What Not to Wear.
It may not bode well for the correspondent's future that she doesn't seem to have thought of that.
Posted by: Paula on Oct 16, 2007 4:25:56 PM
Dismay is too mild a word. Now that you have aired your much appreciated opinion, let that poor misguided person go. Perhaps she lacks a sense of humor....that necessary tool of the elder world. Why I so loved your post that I photographed every shoe in my arsenal.
You delight us, poke us, inspire us, and lead us on into surprising new places. Thank you.
Posted by: Mage on Oct 16, 2007 5:45:35 PM
I know you are mad as hell, Crabby Old Lady--on behalf of all of us, I'd say. That is odd why this person, obviously an American basher, wouldn't comment publicly.
You know, someone "famous" I recently wrote about sent me a really snarky private e-mail (and a nice public comment), but in her case, I appreciated the fact that she said that bloggers don't criticize the content of other people's blogs. I apologized profusely but reminded her that when you write about controversial topics like politics or religion, you are wide open for criticism. But--are there "rules" out there on what blogs politely should and should not do?
Posted by: Fran aka Redondowriter on Oct 16, 2007 6:45:21 PM
Ageist? This person accused you of being ageist?
Pfft. I read that post and laughed - and some of what people have given up, I (not yet an elder!) have given up and others made me think.
If you love dresses or how you look in them or whatever, then giving them up utterly is ... kind of odd. But if you don't, and you just feel obligated by society without appreciating them - then why not if you can? I hardly ever wear dresses. They're a hassle, they lack pockets, and I hate it when the freezing cold wind has such ready access to my legs. (But, if I have a dress I like, and an occasion where it belongs, I'll wear it. I just don't consider "everyday wear" an occasion. And I think I look pretty nice in a good outfit with pants, too!)
Posted by: Laura on Oct 17, 2007 12:34:29 AM
Style eminates from within. Clothing does not a stylish person make. To take it to the extreme, I rather suspect that high heels, nylons, push-up bras, and just the right make-up are a plot by the patriarchy to keep us good wimmen where we ought to be: appealing to men at all costs. There are very few successful women clothing designers, you may have noticed. I'd rather donate my hard-earned meager pennies to Safe Place than have a closet of what is considered by some to be tasteful or up to date.
'Struth, sometimes mine eyes are offended when I see get-ups in public that are too tartish, or slippery sweet, or revealing for my taste. What one chooses to wear when at home is absolutely their privilege. I myself, when at home on the weekends, wear a t-shirt sans bra, sans pants or skirt or dress, even sans panties (*winking at Suzz). What matters to me is the quality of the person inside whatever covering they choose to don in public rather than the fabric or cut. I can agree that the American clothing industry does tend to use too much plastic (unless it's recycled) to make cheap garments, but then we have the choice to purchase or not. Consumerism is rarely tasteful in mass quantity, no matter the product.
I conducted an experiment last summer--wore a pair of Crocs for 3 months rather than my usual, beloved Birkies--to see how they felt. I was surprised at the arch support they gave me, although there are draw-backs for me in wearing them--slippery inside when wet, not especially rugged for rough terrain...but I digress.
I love that you set up something that appealed to the playfulness in your readers. I did not interpret the responses as negative. Rather, they were expressions of exploring new ways of doing old activities, or finding new activities that enrich our lives, or (my favorite) experiencing the up side of paradigm shifts. Taking care of that which we most value. Expressing gratitude for what we have. Granted, other societies can be healthier-minded, more realistic or sensible than Americans in general, but we elderbloggers are not members of the general population. I truly believe we are, as you pointed out, more interested in community, in sharing what works as we age, and having a rollicking good time as often as possible while we do it.
This to me is the glory of life. I have nothing against having differing opinions or tastes, therefore no ill will toward the mystery commenter. I start to have a problem when someone else attempts to impose their opinion or taste on me as being "better," or "higher quality." I get enough of that where I work... Here's to thoughtful, authentic-voiced, caring, playful memes :)
Posted by: Claudia on Oct 18, 2007 11:43:12 AM
I've read all the comments post so far and found them most interesting. One other thing I would add is that by not commenting publicly, this anonymous blogger/reader missed the chance to invite people who might agree with her to add their thoughts.
Posted by: Sharry on Oct 26, 2007 10:07:51 AM








