When Elders Return to College

Yesterday, there appeared in my inbox a message from Marla Fisher, the higher education reporter for The Orange County Register. She directed me to a blog entry on the newspaper’s website from Ann Austria, a freshman, journalism major at California State University Long Beach.

Ms. Austria’s post is so offensive on its face that I feel more pity for the young woman than anger. Here it is in its entirety:

“I’ve noticed an increase in the number of elderly individuals in some of my general education classes. Not that I mind, but sometimes it gets excruciatingly annoying - no offense.

“Take my math class, for example. I’m taking a math class called Math Ideas - it’s basically applying math to real-world situations, nothing that would require too much thinking. There are four elderly persons in that class, but there are two who sometimes don’t completely understand what’s going on - like the review of the Pythagorean Theorem.

“There was also one time where the professor spent like a good twenty minutes trying to get one of them to understand the distributive property. This is the part of the class where I start banging my head on the table.

“But this makes me wonder why a group of people, who look to be between fifty and sixty years old, are taking an undergraduate general education course. Did they get bored of retirement and just wanted something to do? Sounds like a plausible reason, but really, what are their motives for taking a class like this?”

Several OCR readers responded to Ms. Austria. I’m surprised that none (including me, in my haste) commented on the laziness of a student who would take a class she believes doesn’t “require too much thinking”. But my favorite response was from someone who calls him- or herself “student of the revolution”:

“…you’re in the right here. Old people have no purpose in life. Everyone over 55 should just be mashed up and turned into the world’s new food supply. We can call it ‘Soylent Gray.’”

Funny/sad as that comment is, I would like us, elders who share the blogosphere with Ms. Austria, to instead take seriously her question about why old people would take an undergraduate course and whose participation in the class causes her so much frustration.

My inadequate answer is at the OCR website. I’m eager to read yours in the comments below, which I’m sure Marla Fisher will pass on to Ms. Austria, and I am offering space here at TGB for Ms. Austria to respond.

[At The Elder Storytelling Space today, Richard Mims tells of times long past in My Country Grandparents.]

Comments

[Ernestine]

After reading all the comments all has probably been said in response to these remarks.
As I read this young person's comments this early morning "my mind went from sorrow for her to wanting to slap her face"

[susan]

Thanks for bringing this up, Ronni, and as Ernestine mentions, the comments are more than adequate as rebuttal to Ann's unfortunate post.

I just got my A.S. in English three years ago (with a 3.9 GPA), and am currently taking occasional classes because I, as most who go back to college, want to learn new things.

Besides my literary reviews on Spinning, I've got a weblog on hypertext (Ann--can you spell 'hypertext'?) and through all the courses I've taken I've found many 'annoying' students. Of ALL ages. The older student usually questions because they're there to learn--not to pass through the system because their parents were smart enough to know the value of an education and insisted they attend.

I've posted and linked to your post and Ann's.

[Anne]

Well, I am at least heartened by the number of young folks who responded against Ann's blog post. She may represent a popular opinion, but not a unanimous opinion.

[Peggy]

That poor misguided young woman! She was looking at the elders in her class in the wrong way. I hope everybody's comments help her to move towards enlightenment.

[Nancy B]

Ann, the one thing you obviously have not yet learned, is that the human being is a vital part of life. That being has a brain that is contained in a hardened block of bone to protect it. The brain absorbs knowledge; it also synthesizes emotions; it matures with age and it never stops absorbing knowledge. Most human beings learn something new everyday. In order to do that, one has to be open to learning and recognize that life is filled with new and wonderous things. Occasionally, for many medical reasons and some emotional ones, the brain can no longer absorb new. I pity you Ann, that you are of the latter denomination because not accepting that all human beings are capable of learning new, that NOT all human beings know everything, and that to question is to learn. I pity you because you, if you continue on in this way, will never gain wisdom which is an incredible sense of being that can never be lost, but it takes years to acquire.It must be a terrible burden to know everything at such a young age.

[Nikki]

Wow! I’ve gotta give you credit, Ronni, for moving past anger into pity. I haven’t gotten there yet! What an “excruciatingly annoying” little attitude she has! No offense, Ann! So here’s what I would say to Ann:

1) I could guess that the class – “nothing that would require too much thinking” – was attractive to you, Ann.

2) As for the two “who sometimes don’t completely understand what’s going on,” there isn’t one class I ever took throughout my life where this didn’t happen: I worked up the nerve to ask what I thought was a dumb question (since no one ELSE asked about it) and AFTER class, there was always SOMEONE who came up to me and said they were so glad I asked ‘cause they wondered about it too!

3) As for “the professor spent like a good twenty minutes trying to get one of them to understand the distributive property,” I like think you should have like had a little chat with the professor. The professor should’ve like handled that better. You can’t like lay the blame on the elder. Well, you CAN and you DO, but you like SHOULDN’T.

4) You’re old enough to be taking college courses and you can’t think of one good reason why an elder might also be in your class? C’mon! I’ll bet if you sit down and really, really stretch that brain of yours a bit, you can think of MANY reasons they might be there! I’d bet my LIFE on it! You’re the future of the planet, girl. Give it a shot!

5) I’m 60 and recently started a class in Chinese (language). Why? Hey, I’m not gonna TELL you! With your attitude, you don’t deserve to know!

6) OK, I’m trying to move past my anger now… Ann, you need to get out more. Whoever told you that life is over at 50 was lying to you. They were trying to scare you. I don’t know why. You’ll have to figure that out for yourself.

7) If you’re very, very lucky, you’ll live long enough to be an elder and – who knows? – you might want to take a college course. I hope you DO live long enough to be an elder and I hope that, as an elder, you find more joy in life than you seem to be finding in your math class.
8) :)

[bill / prairie point]

Maybe there are no "dumb" questions, but sometimes repeatedly asking questions when the answers should be obvious indicates that a student is not adequately prepared for the class.

I think the young writer jumped to a conclusion that age was the problem when maybe the students asking the "dumb" questions were just not college material.

[Claire Jean]

Ronni, I just had to dig up what I wrote in the year 2000 when I received my college degree at age 58 while working full time. None of it was easy and the remarks hurt, but we older students stuck together and made it through the 7 or 8 years it took to receive our 4-year degree.

OLD GRAD

Robes slick black as newly washed slate
Defending the launch of my delicate state
The road traveled long, twisted, rough
To get want you want
You’d better stay tough

Keep my feet on the ground
Let them rise when no one’s around

Black gown I’m wearing
With cap in a set
You’re looking wondering why
I’ll bet
A person many years behind time
Surfaces now some say
Way past her prime

Keep my feet on the ground
Let them rise when no one’s around

If I now know
What you knew last year
What better way to possibly share
Minds filled with knowing
Hearts filled with glee
All that’s around us
For you and for me
No matter what I am
And you’re twenty-three

Let us both rise up
Lift our feet off the ground
No need to wonder
Who’s around

[Claude]

Poor kid may know about maths, but doesn't know much about life!
I went and left her a note!

[Rain]

I suspect young people resenting the old, for whatever reason they can find, will be more and more common as Social Security is constantly pushed as a big problem because of the aged-- not because the government lied when they said they would increase the tax and invest the excess for future generations. What government did instead was 'borrow' it but borrow it in a way that means steal. You can't hear anything about SS without hearing how the young will bear the burden of the old. Media likes to have one resenting another.

The young woman could have heard someone younger asking that question the same way and wouldn't have resented it but she found something like gender, race or age on which she could hang her anger. We don't even know how old the people were in the class because to her everyone elderly is over 50. She will get there all too soon.

[Kay Dennison]

I graduated from college in 1987 -- two weeks after my 40th birthday. There were a lot of us around my age and older. One of my fellow graduates was a gentleman who was 72 years young who earned his second B.A. The college called us non-traditional students. We knew what that meant but we didn't care. There were students who didn't like us and were as mean-spirited as Anne but most were really nice and several are still my friends today.

I feel sorry for Anne. She has some rather rude awakenings ahead.

[Darlene]

I hope Ann reads this blog. I just wrote a long answer to her comments and it wasn't posted because I didn't have java script installed. With Ann's attitude she will probably decide that I am too old to know how to install it. The reality is, I just don't want to bother as I ranted a bit.

As many of you know I am in my 80's and, as such, I do feel old. But I did not think of myself as old until my late 70's when the slow decline of physical abilities manifested themselves with a bang.

I went back to college when I was in my 40's and had a 4.0 GPA because I was there to learn and I took it seriously. Many of my young classmates were only there to get through and were happy with a C grade. They didn't ask questions because they didn't care. I felt sorry for them because they failed to see the opportunity to really master the subject and fully understand it.

Perhaps the first thing Ann needs to learn is compassion. As a wise man once said, "Book 'larnin ain't everything."

[Paula]

Ms. Austria is a *journalism* major??!!

Career tip, Ann: Practice journalism now, even without the credential.

Ask the older students, "Are you enjoying this class? What are you hoping for? What do you wish you had done when you were my age?"

Then listen.

[Pete]

Dear Ms. Austria:

Please continue to pound your head on the table. It will entertain the rest of the class while the geezers in your midst review concepts they may not have considered in 40 years or more.

As a happy by-product, your poor head may find that some sense has been pounded into it.

In any case, you owe it to yourself to remember that if you see further than the older generation it is because you are standing on our shoulders.

Best always,
Pete

P.S.: As a journalist, you need to know that when you say "no offense" every single reader understands that you know you are saying something supremely offensive but want to be allowed to get away with it without consequence.

[linda-g]

At age 52 I decided to pursue my life long dream of having a college degree. I enrolled at University of Phoenix, which has an older student base, so I did not feel the extreme age gap.
Nevertheless, I was still attending school with students 20 years my junior. One thing that I noticed was that my younger cohorts were lacking in areas like common sense and critical thinking. I added a lot to classroom discussion simply based on my life experience. Another issue was language. These "youngsters" have difficulty with spelling and sentence structure, something that my generation was drilled on extensively in elementary school. I was able to learn a lot from younger students regarding technology and I also gleaned a lot from their forward thinking ideals. The best way to learn and grow as individuals is in a diverse atmosphere. I believe that everyone benefited in the college classes I attended. We emerged with a better understanding and appreciation of what we all had to offer. I believe that Ann has issues that go beyond her classroom experience. Perhaps she has not been exposed to the positive experience of what grandparents have to offer. But, Ann is not the norm. A recent article posted on Across the Ages: April 28, 2008, outlines the generational bridge between Corporate Boomers and Gen-Y employees who can't seem to get enough of what their older mentors have to offer. The tide is about to turn as Boomers [retired or otherwise] begin to realize that they have a mentoring itch that needs to be scratched. Ann is caught in the middle. It's those slightly younger than her that will be wisely turning to those with decades of experience for answers.

[Nancy]

Hello Ann,

I went back to college when I was 50 years old.

It was a wonderful experience for me and,I think, for my fellow students. We enjoyed bouncing ideas off of each other and trading experiences.

That was almost 30 years ago and, believe it or not, I am still in touch with some of the young people I met at school.They're not so young anymore but no less valuable as friends.

They would often come to me and ask who John Foster Dulles was or what did I know about the resignation of Spiro Agnew. They used my age as a resource for information about things that had happened long before. I,in turn would ask them who the latest rock group was and what did they know about a math problem I was having.

We enjoyed each other and ,yes, I asked a lot of questions in class mainly because the instructor was 20 years younger than I was and did not intimidate me. After class, younger students would say,"I'm glad you asked that question. I would have asked but I didn't want to appear dumb."

Ann, I hope you are lucky enough to grow old. It's really not so bad. Some nights on Jeopardy I answer more questions than the younger contestants and it makes me appreciate the fact that I went back to school in my "Old Age" and as Sally Field so happily proclaimed,
"They liked me, they really liked me."

[gillian]

I've been in undergrad classes where seniors and mature students were also enrolled, and I never saw this problem specifically from them. I have seen the situation (more often in evening college courses than in university) where people are taking the classes without having the prerequisites, causing the instructor to spend class time teaching them what the course listing said they should already know. But I haven't seen a correlation between that and the age of the student, and I see it mostly as the fault of the institution for not enforcing their own prerequisite rules (because they want the money more than they care about the quality of the education they're giving). And maybe the instructor's fault for not finding a balance between helping these people during class and telling them to see him/her during office hours while he/she continues with the regular curriculum.

One thing I have noticed about older (as in, >20) students is that they're less embarrassed to admit in front of class that they're confused about something and ask for clarification from the instructor. How many kids were just as lost as these elders in the article, and were grateful that someone else spoke up?

And, seriously, why complain about the time wasted in a supposedly easy class? When I got bored in those, I did my homework for my other classes, or wrote out my grocery list, or something similarly useful.

[Cap'n Jan]

These 'real world math' classes are remedial in nature, and meant for those that have several years between high school and college. They are not meant for someone right out of high school. No offense meant, of course.

If you have just finished high school, why would you need a refresher of Pythagoras's beautiful theorem? Older students who have, say, raised a family between high school and the return to the dream of college, might even appreciate the immense beauty contained in such an elegant theorem. But then, Ann may need remedial (Junior) High level math because she was busy pasting all those gold stars on her Self Esteem class homework. No offense meant, of course.

Which brings up something I like to gripe about (being old and useless, as Ann implies). Self esteem is something that you get through real accomplishment. Something Ann seems to lack. 'Like', she certainly lacks a command of our wonderful language. But that has yet to be a requirement of any journalist I have read. She'll fit right in. Snotty, sanctimonious and essentially 'content free'. No offense intended, of course.

College has become the new high school. The only decent students I have these days, with rare exceptions, are 30 and over. I teach calculus, and occasionally pre-calculus mathematics from time to time at the local CC. Yet another job. Community Colleges have some of the best student populations going. Most of them are 'older', smarter, have good study habits, and are generous with their time and help. That is why I prefer teaching in there. I would welcome any person on this list in one of my classes.

Cap'n Jan

[joared]

I received a similar email from Marla Fisher directing me to Ann Austria's blog post. When I wrote my response there were only three other comments. Yours, Ronni, didn't show up on my screen though it indicates a two hour post time prior to mine -- ah, the interesting variations in cyperspace. The only reason that matters is I would not have repeated some of what you had already said, thus written less, as you cover everything so well.

My initial reaction to Ann's blog piece was she didn't think before she wrote and thought this was just a cute light little fun issue. Perhaps in the future she'll give more careful thought to what she writes.

I gave Ann the benefit of the doubt as to her intent, since I remembered my experience as an older student returning to University some years ago. I recalled other returning student friends and I being aware of some few other older students who were constantly questioning and injecting stories about their life experiences repeatedly and daily into each of our classes. Some of their questions seemed to be constructed in such a way as to show off how smart they were. They had a personal story for everything that came up and, well-intentioned, seemed to think constantly sharing those was a service they were providing toward educating the younger students (or any of us who hadn't had their experience.)

Ann's post made me think that perhaps some of those kinds of older students had made it into her classes, too. Frankly, I could really sympathize with negative attitudes toward older students if Ann and her classmates were exposed to such. Even some of us older students were annoyed with those folks of our generation.

Using up limited class time with continued basic questions one should know as a prerequisite for any class eventually can take away from time that needs to be spent on the higher level material to be learned in the class, whatever the questioner's age. The instructor should determine if, maybe, that person is in the wrong class and needs to go back to the basics, and other, as I described in my response to Ann at the OCR blog. Obviously, just an isolated few questions as she described might be quite appropriate, since we all, young and old, may need to review some of the basics at times.

Sadly, Ann, lightly, but seriously did what too many of any age are often prone to doing -- she generalized -- in this case about older students, lumping all into one basket. Not a very good journalistic behavior -- but we've got some journalists with well-known names, earning big salaries who make wildly generalized statements some of the public accepts. I would hope she does not aspire to being one of that type journalist.

I hope this has been a constructive learning experience, Ann -- one you incorporate into your daily, academic and future professional journalistic life.

[Claire Jean]

This young woman is bringing back memories of my days in college at 50+ years. Most of my encounters with young students were fine. Unfortunately, those few who seemed to share Ann’s views stand out. When I was assigned a young partner for a class project, I quickly sensed the age resentment. We were stuck with each other for several weeks. After some time had passed, the young woman began to open up, and, during the course of many conversations, shared her negative feelings towards her mother who was about my age. Sadly, it would seem that anyone feeling the way Ann does missed the privilege of growing up with the sort of caring and shared wisdom that only someone who has lived long can impart.

[Colleen]

Two thoughts:
1. Employers are now looking at Google, Facebook, etc... to check on prospective employees. Hmmm, what happens when young Ann applies for a job and the 50 something boss reads what she has written about us old people?
2. Our eldest took some college classes at a local community college while a high school student. His favorite class was the history class with a wide age range of students. His comment, "Mom, it's amazing. These older people in the class don't fool around so class goes zipping right along. And I really like when they can share their experiences. It makes the class so interesting."

[la peregrina]

Ah, yes, I remember being that young and thinking the world revolved around me. With apologies to Edwin Starr I now sing OLD PEOPLE:

OLD PEOPLE! Good God y'all huh
What are they good for?
Absolutely nothing...say it, say it, SAY IT!

OLD PEOPLE! uh huh yeah huh!
What are they good for?
Absolutely nothing...listen to me

OLD PEOPLE! Ain't nothing but heartbreakers,
Old people, are a friend only to the undertaker.

Ohhh! Old people are an enemy to all mankind,
The thought of old people blows my mind.

Old People are caused and raised within the younger generation,
Induction then destruction...who wants to die?

Ohhhhhhh OLD PEOPLE! huh...good God y'all...
What are they good for?...you tell me!
Say it, say it, say it, saaaay it!

OLD PEOPLE! Good God now...huh
What are they good for?
Stand up and shout it...NOTHING!

Of course "OLD PEOPLE" would be anyone over the age of thirty. I would say the best thing about getting older is outgrowing those narrow, judgmental, egocentric beliefs we all had when we were young.

Thank God I cannot go back to my twenties (I'm guessing this girl is in her very early twenties) and even if I could, I would not do so. Once was enough.

[donna]

Aw, criminy, I've forgot more math than poor Ann may ever know. Sometimes they just need a refresher, Ann, cause they didn't just take it two years ago, ok?

What are you doing still in Math Ideas, anyway?

[Lydia]

I completed my BA at age 47 in 1989 from George Fox University in Newberg, OR, which offers both traditional degrees and adult degree-completion courses. In my adult degree-completion group (comprised of geezers my age up to 60) there were two young students: ages 21 and 22. Both had petitioned the university to join the adult 21-month intensive course rather than returning to traditional matriculation with their peers. They were interviewed by a panel of professors and regents, intensively so, before being accepted into the adult program. Why did they choose this route for their college educations? Because they found their own age group basically vapid, myopic, and boring. They wanted something different, something deeper. They got it from us, and, in turn, we got it from them. Get it, Ann?

[Cop Car]

It's the arrogance of youth! At 16, I was arrogant enough to suggest to my physics teacher that he not bother spending time with the "slow learners" in the class--that they would not "get it" no matter how much time he gave "them". I'm blushing at my own, young self.

Then, I went to college--majoring in physics. In scientific German class was an "older" woman (one of only 12 women on the campus of 1200). She (in her late 40s or early 50s?) was a local resident, interested in learning German, taking the only course available in her town. I thought it was rather neat to have her in our class, but (sadly) didn't develop a relationship with her.

Having married in the middle of junior year, having dropped out of college in the middle of senior year, having had our first baby, and having worked to earn the money to return to school, I found myself the "old woman" in my classes--at age 23. It was a hoot! Now I saw the 18- to 21-year-olds from the lofty vantage of my advanced years. They all treated me well and were a joy--they only feared that I would have my second child during one of our classes.

As Rain and some of the other commenters pointed out, Ann is just experiencing, through the arrogance of youth, what Ronni writes about in her next posting--an "us" versus "them" point of view. Can we not recognize ourselves in Ann and just chuckle with bemusement? She will become wiser as she ages--much as we did. This is way too much fuss over Ann's condition. The arrogance of youth experiences a spontaneous remission in people who live long enough. Unfortunately, it is sometimes replaced with the arrogance of age--something I fervently wish to avoid.

[Georgie]

All this proves that our society has become segregated by age to the point that the wisdom and experience of older people is disregarded and not considered as important as the technical expertise of young people.

Is being able to deal with computer software as important as nurturing the young, telling stories about one's life and encouraging young people in a relaxed manner while the younger and more physically strong do the hard work of the community?
I don't think so.

I am nearing 88 and writing my third book and at the same time being the wife/supervisor of my husband's full time care. I sing on open mike night at various venues, appear on open mike night every few months at our local Comedy Underground, take part in political organizations, write for two papers and submit articles to numerous other papers and magazines. I appear at various venues in telling my story about being a Rosie the Riveter and recently appeared on the Rosie 2008 calendar. (surf the web for
wawomenintrades.com and learn about how the Rosies were the forerunners of women in the trades.

I contact my local, state and national leaders often. I never let a corporation get away with shoddy products and return for my money back anything that is not up to snuff.

I exercise every morning and go to the YMCA exercise class two or three times a week.

I help organize family birthday celebrations.

I do public speaking in my area on subjects ranging from WWII, Holocaust issues, women's equality issues and the like. I offer to speak to local high school classes.

I am sorting all my memorabilia which contain archives of various groups that I have either started or been a charter member of so that our state history museum can house them.

Negative attitudes toward older people on the part of younger people only result from not ever mingling with them in order to get really acquainted or learning from their vast store of wisdom. It is like hating someone of another culture before meeting one and getting to know that person.

Those who speak ill of the old will soon be old. Hopefully, by that time society will have desegregated by age and retirement residences and care centers will not be separated from the whole of society but will be integrated so that the richness of life the elders represent can be shared as the extended family and earlier communities once shared.

As a returning college student who was one of those who couldn't ...."understand the distributive property,” I made a lot of good friends in the teacher's offices after class.

For I was one who didn't finish college the first time around. You will see many of us in your classes dear Mz. Austria. We age from our 20's through to our 90's, and we long to stretch our brains and keep on keeping on growing. Maybe we just want to learn to apply math, or maybe we have a math handicap. What ever the reason we are in your class, it's a positive one.

No matter our why's, the stats show that we "returning" students far outpace the kids. Yes, we annoy you with our questions, and yes too, we make the Dean's list and Honor Societies with a certain regularity. We are flat out delighted to be there on campus learning how math applies out there in the real world or in Statistics 500, Architectural History 604, or even Writing 520.

Come and join us to find out what it's like up here. Perhaps there's some "Adult" classes near you that will let you expand your horizon.

Thanks for posting this Ronnie.

[Mage Bailey]

Sorry about the missing links, Ronnie. Something's burped, and your blog will not save my "personal info," and I forgot to fill it out before posting my comment.

[Claudia]

Poor girl. Keep in mind that this may be a class assignment, and she took the easy way out. If her prof is truly an educator, she or he can help her turn this into a valuable lesson, one that will remain with her throughout her career, if we didn't scare her away from journalism completely.

I did comment on the OCR, saying pretty much the same thing--she is fortunate to have had this relatively benign group call her on her inexperience and lack of understanding. Just think what the general public would have done--oh, wait, they did--the "Soylent Gray" wag.

I predict she will either abandon her plans for a career in journalism, or she will use this learning experience to become a better journalist.

[Claudia]

There is an excellent article on the aging brain in the Health section of the NYT--which I offered to Ms. Austria as a good starting place for her research preparatory to her follow-up article interviewing the commenters on her blog post (I just know there's going to be one):
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/health/research/20brai.html?ex=1212033600&en=c21ad329cfac7dcf&ei=5070&emc=eta1

[Ann Austria]

Yep... I'm here to clarify myself. I apologize for genralizing the older generation based on the two who are in my math class. And I apologize for coming off as offensive. But don't get me wrong, I truly respect the older generation for their wealth of knowledge and amazing experiences. I've lived around the older generation for most of my life - my grandparents, my friends' grandparents, my U.S. Marine veteran neighbor to name a few - those were the ones who taught me things I could never learn in school. In my frustration with the class (which I attended that day)I wrote without thinking as someone said. More in my follow-up blog post....

[Cowtown Pattie]

Ann,

Good for you, you took up the gauntlet, but methinks you must have taken a course in media-speak.

I don't believe we elders "got you wrong" at all. Sometimes, words mean exactly what they say. Undercurrents of values and beliefs have a way of shining through belying words.

Apologies and retractions aside, it reminds me of yesteryear when self-deluding racists would protest, "Why I like Negroes! Some of my best friends are black!".

Still, your willingness to rephrase and explain goes a long way.

I recall a junior college class once - a fellow student was nearly 30 years older than the rest of us. He garnered immediate respect from the middle-aged American history professor and was the teacher's pet the entire semester. Trouble is, he really did know his history, and put the rest of us in second-class stowage. And it wasn't simply knowing more, this older student obviously loved the subject and added much more depth to a class that would have been otherwise forgotten.

Funny, a few years later, the same older student became my boss when I took a secretarial job at a wire-line service truck manufactuing plant whose main customers were Halliburton and Schlumberger.

I had a conversation with him and reminded him of our mutual history class. He couldn't place me, but allowed he did take the class. So, obviously his impression upon me was lasting, unlike the reverse.

Will catch your follow-up, Ann.

[Ann Austria]

In response to Claire Jean's comment on May 20th: What if that 50-something plus boss read that blog post and hired me because I was gutsy enough to post it and was able to take these harsh comments.

I would love to attend a class where no one "fooled around" - where the range of age in the students in big enough to have many viewpoints. In fact, my Greek Mythology class is like this. There are a couple of elders in the class who brought up many interesting points that are not addressed in the textbook. In my math class, I'm sorry to say, there's a lot of fooling around going on.

Take into account that this is one class and two elders who do not represent the entire older generation.

Anywho, the follow-up post is up
http://collegelife.freedomblogging.com/2008/05/21/continuing-on-the-elderly/

[Matty]

I really do feel sorry for that young lady...she does have a lot to learn. I wonder what she'll be doing at 50?
I did have to laugh with the comment re: food supply.
And Ann..I do hope you treat your 'loving elders' with more respect than you do your classmates.
Maybe if you bang your head hard enough...you'll knock some sense into it.

[Georjina]

The scarey part - this child is taking a class titled "Math Ideas" and honestly believes it's going to work in the 'real world'. Poor thing, not to mention she majors in Journalism and doesn't know the first thing about being a writer. Sheesh, I'd be embarrassed to share a class with this buffoon!

[Glenn]

Three people at fault: the professor for wasting 20 minutes of class time to bring a person up to speed on the basics, and 2) The person who was taking the class without the required prerequisite knowledge, and 3) Ann, for thinking age had anything to do with it.

It had nothing to do with being an elder.

[CHARLIE]

i used to lecture. i found the older students much more interesting and committed to actually expanding their knowledge rather than just making credits for the course.
If you know so much maybe you are in the wrong class or could practice random acts of kindness by offering to tutor the elder. you might actually learn something and make a friend.

[Cynthia]

I graduated with a BA in the top ten of a thousand students nineteen years ago. I was published and won awards for my creative writing right out of college. I was 36 years old. My two closest friends were ten years older and ten years younger than I.
I felt I had a tremendous advantage over many of the younger students because I was so focused and interested in my studies and I had so much life experience that contributed to my understanding of literature and other subjects.
I'm 55 now and I want to go back for my masters degree.
The idea is daunting, but these postings are encouragement.
I believe in life-long learning. I believe it's important for the continued development of our brains and our souls.

[RaCher]

Hello Ronni, hey Bill their is a woman a few ahead of ya : ) I am one of many women returned to college after mastering wife/mother/employee roles then added Student to the mix and I tell you my biggest fear was finishing my AA degree when I have reached the age of wisdom. I worry for nothing and this is for Ms. Austria, the oldest graduate at Cosumnes River College Comenct. of 2008/09 was --- 86 ---years of wisdom (age)this lady sat next to a colleague during the ceremony and the youngest was under 25. I am 43 and almost finished with the first degree, and plan to transfer. RaCher of Sacramento

[PJ]

Posted by: Nikki on May 20, 2008 9:32:48 AM

Ann is really getting beat up and should perhaps have been more understanding. I am 59 1/2 yrs old returning to complete a writing degree after helping daughter through undergrad & law school and 36 years on my present job, but I agree with the comment posted by the above named person.

[Joni]

This is the first comment I have ever posted in my life on whatever this is (a blog, or something). And I probably will not take time to look this site up again to see if anyone responds to my comment, I actually don't care. I am 55 years old, spent 33 years in an enclosed monastery, have traveled the world over, done secretary work for Pope John Paul II and just enrolled in a University to get my BS in Psychology (I will do so in 2 years), will go on to get my Master in 2 more years and plan to get my Doctorate after that (I suppose it may take me more than 2 years to accomplish this last goal!) Why? I feel sorry for someone who does not know that answer. I also feel sorry for the young lady who asked in the first place because she needs a refresher course in English composition: "Did they get bored of retirement and just wanted something to do?" is not good English! A 55 yr old college freshman---