Romney/Ryan Relying on Greedy Geezers

I don't believe elders are particularly greedy. We might, however, be particular easy to frighten. Not only are we facing our own mortality, but the world we've known is changing so fast -- seldom apparently for the better.

We thus are vulnerable to self-interested charlatans who poke at us to arouse our fears. We need leaders who speak to our hopes; that's hard, but I think we are as able to respond as any generation.

Like it or lump it, we will have to bite this bullet sooner or later. Interestingly, Joel Klein in today's post says there is little differnce in the plan Obama developed via the ACA and the Ryan plan in terms of how much they cut the growth in Medicare (GDP + .05 %).

The devil is in the details as they say. Mostly, all we get from the media is hyperventilation. The only informative discussion I have heard was on the PBS News Hour last night. You can probably find it on the web. Also, David Stockman wrote a good piece today in the New York Times (Kindle version).

I have children in their late forties and early fifties as well as grandchildren, and I think revamping Medicare in order to save it for them is critical. Just not sure who can do the best job. Where is Bill Clinton when you need him?

BTW, Ryan says his plan is based on the findings from the Clinton Commission on this topic. Also, Erskine Bowles had many positive things to say about the Ryan plan.

You may not like Bowles, but it is rumored here in DC that he will be the next Sec. of the Treasury if Obama is reelected.

Dianne

If our opinions are formed by TV ads, what hope can we hold when so much more money is spent by republicans on those ads? Resources such as your blog are so important and I hope not just voices in the wilderness.

I think, unfortunately, that the reason many elders favor right-wing positions has little to do with greed. It is racism. Since Barack Obama started his run for the presidency, most polls have shown people in older age brackets opposed to him or any policy or person connected to him.

I take this as "bad news, good news." The younger folks demonstrated conclusively that they are less racist as a group than their parents and grandparents by backing Obama and his policies.

The U.S. will be a better country in the future.

I agree with Gabby Geezer. I think that there is a lot of racism in my generation. I also think that the majority of my generation of white middle class elders are very conservative and are reluctant to change their beliefs. If they have always voted Republican, they will do so again and just make excuses for the gaffs and policies of any Republican candidate, even when it is against their best interests.

I'm with Gabby and Darlene, but will add that the conservative mantle often masks the racism and fear, and it's just a few tiny steps to greed/selfishness.

I see a lot of selfishness among contemporaries, and it is distressing. But I also agree with Dianne. With people living so much longer, and not taking a lot of responsibility for saving for their old age or worse, their own health, Medicare is facing costs it was never intended to shoulder.

My work on the Obama campaign tells me that there are lots of elders (and not all of them rich) who are not greedy and understand that a lot of elders (like me) rely on Social Security and Medicare. And the word from the kids is that they can't afford to take care of granny nor do we want them to take care of us.

Many of us here in Ohio have already taken cuts here in Ohio due to our "dear" GOP Governor.

I can't risk Romney-Ryan. Given that 3.6 million elders are living in poverty and that doesn't count those who are just barely getting by, neither can many of you who who read this blog.

I really fear the ignorance or stupidity which makes people vote against their best interests. It's the wars, dummies!

And the rich and those who manipulate them? They just don't CARE if the rest of us live in pain, or they would have created better jobs/health care already!

Thanks Ronni for working so hard to keep us well informed!

It's my understanding that seniors' current Medicare benefits, like Social Security, are actually funded by deductions from the paychecks of those working right now. Is that true? If so, why would younger workers be willing to keep paying into a program that will only minimally benefit them?

Kenon...
Because that is the way the Social Security program was designed and doing such is part of the social contract.

If you want to see it that way, my parents paid for their parents' Social Security, I paid for my parents' Social Security, and so on. But it is a measly way to view the most successful social program in the history of the world.

Some complain that the deductions are too high, but consider that our parents along with mine and your benefit are guaranteed until you die, however long that is and however much or little you have paid into the program.

As we found out in 2008, the stock market cannot guarantee that.

I think a lot of people are prejudiced. One particular relative of mine does not like Obama because he is black. But she also does not like Mormons, so was very conflicted. But the Ryan pick will allow her to vote for Romney/Ryan - unfortunately.

I don't believe the majority of seniors are selfish. I do believe many are life long Republicans who don't fully understand that their party has changed greatly. if I were them I would be very sceptical that Medicare will not change in their life time under the Ryan plan.

I am sorry to say that I also believe that many people will never vote for Barack Obama because he is Black.

This is a critical time for all Americans, not just the middle class (what is left of them) and the poor, but the rich as well.

It is a well known fact you cannot disregard the basic needs of a whole nation of people with a "Just let them eat cake" attitude. The backlash can be quite powerful.

Yes, today’s seniors must surely be the “most selfish generation in American history.” Forget that those in their 80’s and 90’s are considered part of the “The Greatest Generation”. Forget too those in my age group who served in Vietnam. Not all of us succeeded in having that American dream come true though it wasn’t from a lack of trying or wanting too.

I remember grumbling as a young wage earner about having to pay into a system that I wouldn’t benefit from for years, if I was lucky to live long enough. But wasn’t I being greedy then too by selfishly thinking of myself rather than how I was helping my parents who had sacrificed much for me as I grew up. Both of them were from “The Greatest Generation” and managed to raise four kids on lower, middle income wages without either one of them having a high school degree.

We seldom went without but were far removed from the lifestyle of Mitt Romney and his crowd. As a result of trying to provide for us, both Mom and Dad were unable to save enough to send us to college or put some away for their own retirement. Without the federal assistance of VA benefits, my brother and I would have never been able to go to college and improve our chances in the job market with a higher level of education.

It turns out my Mom and Dad were the norm rather than the exception and had it not been for my generation supplying the revenue for Social Security and Medicare at their time of need, they would have suffered the consequences of poverty that existed for the elderly prior to the inception of Social Security and Medicare.

How easily some forget that all retirement funds are subject to inflation, a factor none of us have any control over. And for those who have built up a reasonable private nest egg through stock portfolios, their wealth is often negatively impacted by a volatile stock market and loses value at a time when they need it most. You may not get a lot from your social security benefits but they are not subject to such market whims.

Those conditions that mine and millions of other parents experienced still exist today for our generation. Some of us are a little better off than many others but due to the free market failure to keep financial institutions in line, some of us lost our jobs after 2007, before we were ready to retire. And because we are older, we found it difficult to find any employment that would come close to what we had worked hard to achieve all of our lives. That was an unseen consequence that was ameliorated some by being able to at least collect some share of social security at age 62.

In my case, early social security benefits and a small stipend from an IRA I had built up before being laid off gets me by without experiencing many undue hardships that people who only have social security checks experience. Because of that, I now see that it was a smart thing then and continues to be today for today’s youth to put into a system that not only helps provide for those people who raised them but will be there for them if they too are one of the millions who, from no lack of trying, are unable to put sufficient funds away to live out their old age with.

I think Ronmey/Ryan have cornered the racist vote among white seniors, especially white male seniors. These are the people with the loud voices who never listen and like to think everyone is afraid of them.
There are other kinds of people in this country, however, and I can't imagine this ticket would be popular among them.
Don't miss the vids, which you can watch on Crooks and Liars, of people being thrown out of Ryan rallies. One vid shoes a 71 year old man complaining about the Ryan SS plan who was hustled out, put on the floor and handcuffed, while Ryan joked that he sure hoped he'd taken his blood pressure medication. Fascism starts like this, with the bully boys shutting up the opposition. No one has ever treated Tea Partiers that way.
The brownshirts are trying to take over, but I think we can stop them. Get people registered to vote. Contribute to Dems running in contested districts.
These awful people mustn't win.

Earlier I posted a question--is Medicare funded in the same way as Social Security? It really was a question, not a slam at the system.

My point: how can any senior be gullible enough to believe that Romney/Ryan would actually provide the funding to keep either of those programs going for people over 55? It's a promise made to be broken. Especially when younger workers know these safety nets will be gone when their need arises.

Kenon...
I did misread your question but I certainly did not take it as a slam.

What I missed was you asking about how Medicare is funded - yes, through payroll deductions.

Among the many problems that have put funding of Medicare in jeopardy are that health costs have skyrocketed in the past 40 years much faster than was expected and that Congress passed the prescription drug benefit without funding it (Paul Ryan was among those who voted for that unfunded benefit).

The Medicare drug benefit in particular was a big giveaway to the pharmaceutical companies because in addition to being unfunded, the legislation, unlike the prescription drug plan with the VA, does not allow the government to negotiate with drug companies.

It is a big boondoggle to transfer a lot of federal money to big pharma. Billy Tauzin, the Louisiana legislator who pushed the drug bill through Congress left almost immediately after passage to take a job worth a couple of million dollars a year with the big pharma lobbying organization.

Before we go slashing benefits, we should first change the legislation to allow negotiation on drugs. Billions of dollars at stake on that.

As to whether Romney/Ryan or any president would continue funding Medicare, they cannot change any of it without the consent of Congress - which is why the down-ballot races in each state are so important and why I keep harping on this stuff.

Now if we had REALLY good politicians and legislators, we would not be talking about cutting back Medicare, we would be figuring out how to create Medicare for all. That's what we should be fighting for.

I'm with Kenon - those of us over 55 would be fools to believe that there would be no change to our benefits - how could there not be - as the pool shrinks, costs per person rise, and we'll be dumped into the "improved" system at a time in our lives when age, frailty and illness will make "choice" seem like punishment.

What has been said here about too many Republicans willing to vote lockstep with that Party because they don't realize how much it has changed -- radicalized, actually, pandering to extremists -- is what I've discovered to be true with some individuals I know.

Also, a few months ago in a call from a longtime Southern friend I hadn't spoken with for quite awhile, she volunteered to me her shock to discover so many racist people in her life. Four years ago, I, too, was heartsick to discover how many people I knew who were racist -- some I had thought of as friends with whom I had similar political beliefs. They didn't say it, but their election position change said it all -- no other reasons could explain their switch.

I can only speak for myself, select family members, and close friends, who in total span the voting age gamut. We all see the big picture and believe that not only is there enough to go around in this large rich nation, but the largess deserves to be spread around to preserve the American Dream.

So, I, we, are not selfish! I just don't know how many other people deep down in their souls actually practice what they may say they believe once they get in that voting booth, or mark that absentee ballot.

Overall, I don't know what to think about selfishness as I have become disillusioned with more people than I would have imagined -- as if enough friends don't drop by the wayside from natural aging causes. Some are of the WWII generation like me, and scary to say, get most of their information from that "unfair and unbalanced" network. Some Boomers I know aren't much more enlightened in their thinking and use limited news sources. Incredibly to me, I hear some women saying basically, I don't know what I think until my husband tells me. I could only hope some of those groups might listen to other points of view.

Of course there will be detrimental changes for all seniors in all of these programs if the 2r's are elected. Also,absolutely, unless something is done about the pharma companies, trying to rein in health care costs is limited.

What happens depends also on the congressional makeup. There's greater hope for more reasonable change with Obama I think.

I am offended by the claim that if you disagree with the present President you are a racist. Many of those so called racists voted for Obama the first time. His policy and plans for America's future are the issue. Many of those "racists" would have gladly voted for Herman Cain if he had won the Republican nomination.

I adamantly disagree that it is possible to sustain programs that rely upon our children sending 50% or more of their income to Washington so that politicians and bureaucrats, who pass laws from which they are exempted, can re-distribute it to constituencies of their choosing. (Read Buying votes!) There is no better way to turn our children into slaves.

I believe that the Obama administration are the radicals and they clearly have no understanding of economics. When fifty percent of the population who pay no income tax can vote for the people who distribute the other fifty percent of the population's income the system is bound to become corrupt. Who is it that is not paying their fair share?

America always needs change, it does not need "transformation". People have a short memory. Since Franklin Roosevelt there have been Democrats in the white house for approximately 40 years of the 80 since he was elected. The Democrats cannot say they are not for at least half at fault for the financial mess the Country is currently facing.

Everyone agrees that the Social Security system is "unsustainable", (look it up) made more so by the unsustainable Medicare system. Like children, people do not like it when their "entitlements" are taken from them.

Before we kill the messenger, we need to give some real thought to where we are and where we are headed. Democratic society will not function unless the people take responsibility for their role in the entire society.

My definition of Socialism is " everything is free...but nothing is available". I don't want to prove it by personal experience.

rayy8

Ronni, in your response to Kenon shouldn't the word "now" be changed to "not"?
(...VA does now allow ....)

Flutterby...
Thank you for finding that. It's fixed now.

What % of Elders are ignorant, misinformed and prejudiced? How many are like the woman in Florida who told an NP TV interviewer recently that she didn't support "Obamacare" and when asked what she didn't like about it replied "I don't know, I just don't like it"?

Willful ignorance is not exclusive to the young or old - we have as many young people in that category as in the "greedy geezers" gang.
The right wing can manipulate the uninformed very skillfully. They're almost as good at it as Hitler was.

Pushing Granny over a cliff is not skillful manipulation?? Clearly both political parties have there manipulation experts. The only protection we the people have against blatant manipulation is, in fact, education and critical thinking. if you are not willing to find out for yourself and refuse to rely upon the sound bites and pundit interpretation of what is affecting your life, you should not be voting. rayy8

Actually, the following link is to a piece today [August 16], but I do not want to let it go. William Rivers Pitt writes frequently for Truthout. He is passionate, opinionated, eloquent, and his column today seems especially worth sharing with this group. See
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10933-beneath-the-bottom-of-the-barrel

I can't speak to what others may have written here about racism, but for those people I described it wasn't a matter of disagreeing with candidate Obama's issue positions. In fact, their attitude revelations emerged BEFORE President Obama's 1st election.

In some instances the individuals had been wholeheartedly in support of the Democratic Party issue positions, then when Obama became the nominee they suddenly overnight reversed to the other Party. My efforts to patiently calmly understand some issue-based reasons for their change elicited nothing but double-talk, sometimes prefaced by their spontaneous comment, "I'm not racist but..." though never once was the intimation or statement made to them even suggesting their change was race-related. To this day I have not said that and still have contact with them, but much less frequently, by my choice.

Independently, and unbeknownst to me, half-way across the continent from this original northerner(me), my dear southern friend coincidentally encountered the same thing as she revealed in the first contact we had had for a couple of years. We discovered we had both been surprised, disappointed, and reluctant to think this about our respective friends, but unable to find any other explanation for their attitudes. Believe me, we tried 'cause there was so much we liked about our friends.

Racism is often covert and insidious for deliberate reasons. Others, truly do not recognize, or they deny their racism. Another friend told me of overcoming her racist attitudes instilled in her since childhood.

I do not presume to know how much those attitudes influence voters in this coming election. Ideally, they shouldn't at all, but we don't live in an ideal world.