This makes me glad that I have never visited Facebook, and never will.

I agree that this type of speech is wrong and it needs to be stopped.

But I wonder about the demographics of these posters. Most of us can remember when we thought our 25-year-old teachers were "old." Or when we didn't "trust anyone over 30." I am wondering if some of this isn't just a desire of kids to have a private space away from grownups.

I've never been to Facebooks but I gather that the "groups" are just something you click to "join" if the name sounds right to you?

Sites like Facebook and MySpace encourage people to leave written, public records of the loutish sentiments they would otherwise express only to entertain and support their similarly benighted friends.

Bigots are irresistibly drawn to the Internet because it allows them to spread their toxic view in a seemingly "public" forum that requires no actual personal accountability. It's the electronic equivalent of the Klan lynch mobs who hid behind bedsheets.

I think a particularly depressing aspect of the current political campaigns is the emergence of candidate and campaign MySpace pages.

These pages have some entertainment value, however, because of their ironic content. Check out, for example, Mitt Romney's page. I particularly enjoyed the pro-family values photo comment from "SexyLilBunny."

Despite practically every person I know running off to join Facebook, I have stubbornly resisted. I feel that my blog gives me as much online presence as I'd like - and takes up so much of my time that I don't know when I'd hang about on Facebook trying to collect "friends"! Despite being (presumably) in their target demographic, I just don't see the point and consequently I have never even been on the site.

I must say that I'm pretty horrified by what I read in your post. Yes, you can argue that the people posting this are teenagers and don't know any better, but can somebody please explain to me where all this hate and anger come from?? I certainly don't remember anything like it when I was growing up, and that wasn't a million years ago.

I find it appalling that Facebook does not take down this sort of content. As you say, Crabby, how is this any different to hate speech about blacks, women, Muslims or disabled people? And yet it is not seen as being offensive enough to remove - despite contravening the site's own regulations!

I've said it before and I'll say it once more, with feeling: it'll be a cold day in hell before you see me on Facebook.

What I heard about facebook wasn't good so I never went there. It just looked to me like another place geared toward adolescent nastiness and hooking up. Not my cuppa. After what you've written here, Ronni, you couldn't pay me to get involved. My blood pressure couldn't take it and neither could I. Think about this: these kids could well be the people who get to choose our nursing home or could be appointed our guardians! It scares the hell outta me!

Good grief, they're getting downright hostile!

I think that the anonymity of the web does bring out annoyances and turn them into extremist statements that aren't as seriously meant in reality. But the bad part is that it fuels by mob mentality to make it seem okay.

I think Facebook is definitely responsible for overseeing and enforcing their stated policy.

This is the kinda "stuff" that elders hear about and makes them even more reluctant to become bloggers.

Reads like a bunch of little kids, or immature older ones or adults trying to see who can write the most outrageous comment.

Glad to read your take on any of these websites. I was turned off by Eons from the get-go. Now, this Facebook doesn't seem to be worth the time it takes to type their name.

However nasty this is, it turns up all over the Web, not just on Facebook. I was invited to join by someone I respect who is making constructive use of the networking possibilities. I already have a couple of projects in hand that will be developed in part using Facebook networking. As someone above said, the comments you refer to are coming from a bunch of immature kids and while I agree that Facebook should be policing the site better I think it is wrong to turn away from potentially useful technology because someone else is abusing it.

Also Ronni - think about this quote

Meanwhile, big media is fawning all over their latest internet darling, 23-year-old Facebook founder, Mark Zuckerberg, as in this Time magazine interview last week.

How would you have viewed someone else characterising Zuckerberg by his age if he had been 63?

Oh,pooh, a tempest in a teapot. Saying outrageous things--speaking in hyperbole--characterizes some speech, sometimes; it's rhetorical, not literal.

Ronni people who demean and slander older people are beneath contempt and obviously misguided in their ignorance. Ageism, to my mind, is as revolting as sexism or racism.

1. These institutions aren't teaching them very much. Maybe they should step aside and let someone else take their seat in the class.

2. I would be so embarrassed and heart-broken to be these kid's parents

3. I can't wait until they are "old people" (wouldn't be fun if each of them had to have their nasty little comment tattooed on themselves for all the world to see)

Ronni, I'm glad you're pushing back on this--I'd like to see this report go out to a wider audience. I bet the AARP magazine would be very interested in an article about this.

Ronni: I'm polling eGenerations members about their own experiences, if any, with elder hate. I'll let you know if they come up with any examples. Personally, I've often been ignored, but I can't remember any instances of hatred being expressed toward me, either in person or in writing. I'm glad I've never visited Facebook. Those writers (certainly not all Facebook members) are sick! Still, I hope we "old folks" are not being too sensitive. I'm usually content to "live and let live."

I have joined a couple of these hate groups to see what they are about. Do take a look at my post at Elders Tribune if anyone is interested to see beneath the surface.

Thanks everyone for joining in on this conversation. Ronni, thank you so much for giving this the attention it deserves.

Besty: I too feel a bit of press coverage would be great; however, I wonder if AARP would just be preaching to the choir. How to converse more with the generation who is generating this language? What other press outlets could we notify?

Jonathan: Ahh, free speech. Censorship. So. The options? To allow the racist and antisemetic groups back on facebook. Or, to keep it even-steven. Remove the elder hate groups. AND, pop in a a little community education while at it. That: would be the responsible thing for facebook administrators to do.

Penelope: The damage? Ignore? Hate speech, whether joking or malicious, does too often escalate into abuse. Elder abuse or even passive neglect is predominant around the world (even in cultures where people think 'they respect their elders over there!') and academics are just now looking into the issues surrounding it. But I have a feeling for every kid who laughs it off, several take it to heart. And even if it hurts one person in a grocery store to hear a malicious joke, isn't that harm enough?

You know, I find this absolutely appalling as well, despite being under 30, but at the same time, I also find the opening of Facebook to the general public an annoyance. Facebook was originally built for university students to connect with each other (and alumni, as I was out of college by the time it started), then a couple of years ago the doors were opened and an influx of children were let in, hence the elder-bashing. I did a search as well after reading your article and the vast majority of those in elder-bashing groups are of high school age.

Isn't there anywhere for adults to go on the internet anymore? I don't think this is just about being over 50 or over 30. I wish Facebook had remained a place for the educated, and not the masses.

I think that the "age hate" represented on facebook is geared more toward the dislike of non-traditional students. Granted, the majority of comments are rude, personal, and subjective. Possibly there is no need for the group dedicated to making fun of old people...Just possibly.

I think there is a wall of misunderstanding between our generations. The young, myself included, enjoy extremes of sarcasm, and humor that is aimed to shock the reader/ viewers. Of course, this type of humor leads to a macho-est style of competitive posting. That does not mean that they are serious.
The elder generations, I think, don't understand the jest in this type of humor.
Back to the subject of non-traditional students: (i.e. students in college later in life)

It is actually a subject of much frustration for many people in the average age range for college students. Frustration because of the differences in the approach that the older students more commonly take to their classes (possibly due to more "life experience" or the fact that they, themselves are older than the professor). I think some common attributes seen in non-traditional students are: inability to keep up with class work, constant questioning of the classroom material, no care for classroom etiquette, tardiness (with excuses, always very loudly spoken excuses), and poor note taking habits.
This list of common attributes is not definitive of all non-traditionals, in any way, I'm sure there are non-trads out there who are great students (though I doubt there are many).
The common attributes as listed are a severe disruptive force for the classroom environment, due to many reasons. I wont list them all, but here is an example: Challenging the instructor, this is common for non-trads from my experience. The instructor is not pulling his or her information from a rabbit filled hat, it is their life's work to study and relate this information to student groups, however a non-trad heard from a friend at church who knows someone that may know something that the professor is wrong. It does not matter, and in attempting to prove a professor wrong with a usually skewed logic and idealism laden assumption the class at large is loosing valuable time and education (but it cant wait until after class, as the non-trad must get back home post haste.)

Well, sorry to drag on, but I hope that this shows somewhat a root from where all of this age-ist angst is coming from.
It's not because we play too many video games, are self-indulgent beyond what your generation is, narcissistic, or in anyway inherently hateful to our elders. I surmise that it is much more a problem related to the problem caused by the rise in non-trad students in recent years.

Thanks,
S.
24yr old, College Grad.

Well Tish,

I hope that you graduate sometime before you hit sixty, starting your life at forty is hard enough. Let's not get going on finding your "career" once you hit your twilight years, it'll most likely be very hard to move up the company ladder if you only have 20 years of productive labor in you before you're off to the home.
I kid, I kid. See, this is the type of humor that I refered to earlier (cite middle of my last post)it's funny to us "whipersnapers" though I fully understand if you don't find it so.
Hey Tish, if I may call you Tish, I'm not saying that you are elderly at forty by any means, just that you are far removed from the normative college demographic (Undergrad being from 18 to 25 yrs.)
Peace Out.
Young Steve.

Oh, dear. Seems as if the issue of elder-bashing is equally as polarizing as women-bashing, gay-bashing, etc. If there is one thing the average person hangs onto for dear life, it's personal perspectives and prejudices.

Studies show that watching violence on TV leads to a de-sensitization that allows violence to become the unexamined norm. This paradigm shift applies to any activity that devalues or denigrates human beings. So how do we determine where that line is, when it changes from sarcasm to custom? At the very least, this behavior prevents any meaningful or collegial dialogue within the Facebook (or any) community.

I didn't read Ronni's post as a blow to free speech, although some of the comments come perilously close. We can choose to either respond or disengage from the group. There is the real possibility that people engaging in bashing will not only come to accept it as the norm, but even those who don't actively participate, but only keep silent, are giving tacit approval. This reminds me of the famous quote about "they came for the Jews, and I was silent." We all know the ending of that story.

Still, internet=free speech=free wheeling, and navigating the Web is at your own risk. The decision to speak up or not is an individual one, and should remain so.

Having spent most of my adult life working in universities, I've seen hundreds of thousands of 18-26 year olds come and go. Attitudes and behaviors have changed over the years. Time was when younger people deferred to elders because it was expected, and generally led to civilized exchange of ideas, etc. Every year, I see the phenomenon of "entitlement" grow. While transcribing interview tapes for doctoral dissertations on the subject, I was appalled that every single interviewee felt that they deserved an A, no matter whether they had actually earned it or not. Not only that, if they received any lower grade, it was their expectation that they should be able to argue the professor into changing it. From colleagues at other universities, I'm hearing the same thing. From a true learning environment, we have evolved into a bottom line way of thinking: "I (or my dad or mom) paid for this education, now you OWE me an A."

Wow. Sorta parallels what's happening in society--Enron, the Bush/Cheney cancer, corporate greed to the annihilation of the masses tacitly (or vocally) saying "I am above the law. I am the center of the universe, and I will destroy anything in my path to acquire money and power." Maybe a little harsh to compare young adults to that crap, but when they have these people as role models, well, it's no wonder social values in the US have gone to shit. I don't blame the young folks, they're just trying to survive in a very scary global environment.

Never before has our society been in such deep moral doo-doo, which includes trashing the environment. I think, therefore, it behooves each of us to closely examine our beliefs and get to work on figuring out how to communicate inter-generationally so we can figure out how to clean up this mess. To not do so is to hasten the end of civilization as we know it.

Um, wow!

Question about Facebook groups, then.

If I were to start an intergenerational group on Facebook, what could we do to make it productive, instead of just another passive conglomerate of folks who support something? Should I try to establish something?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks y'all!