Ronni - Great post and this post should be read by all ages not just older readers. But you are correct the way that a fact or something is written, colors our perceptions greatly.

My generation was taught that (like your say) an elderly person was someone that was old and frail. Age may make you old and frail, but there are many older people in all societies that are in much better shape and more vital than their younger counterparts.

Well gotta get ready for work, great post - as always you made me think -- which is a good thing.

Harold

Funny you should mentioned the length of time you have been on the air with Time Goes By. Just this past Tuesday I was trying to recall how long I had been a “TGB member” and determined it was in or around early 2006 or so. Right about the time you were moving to Maine. I remember the first post I ever commented on was “The Corner Bordello” post which remains a favorite!

As to language, my tenure here has propagated a much different take on the subject. I almost always use the term ‘elder’ now except in the case of some of my writing. I tend to still use the term ‘senior’ from time to time because of its universal use and recognition. I suppose that is a bit of a cop-out from your viewpoint….but I’m getting there.

But as to our plight as elders, we as a group remain stereotyped and I’m sure that will not end anytime soon. I often go to a store such as Best Buy or Office Depot and it seems I am completely transparent to sales clerks who are almost always very young. There are times of avoidance when I will stare at them thinking, “You little twerp! You have no idea how smart I am and how stupid you are.” But the irony of that is that in their process of avoiding eye contact with me….they are probably wondering, “Who let him out of the nursing home to roam the streets and make my life miserable.”

In some respects it seems a vicious circle because I am sure I do my own share of stereotyping, especially when I am ill-treated…..or more importantly, not treated at all.

Re your tagline, I would argue for keeping "older." "Old" suggests an end point to me. Even though I am now Old, presumably I am not as old as I'm going to get; I'm going "to get older."

It’s not easy being older, especially if you continue to enjoy doing a few things you did when you were younger. This is especially true in regard to my exercise classes at the Y. I know I’ve talked about this again and again, but please bear with me as I continue to rant. I missed two mid-week 6AM classes due to ice and snow and one Saturday morning class because I was enjoying the day with a friend in NY. I could not believe the questions thrown at me when I showed up this past week. Are you okay? Nothing’s wrong is it? We missed you and were beginning to worry. I know the sinking feeling of seeming transparent, but sometimes it can be a plus!

There really isn't a good word for being old except old. Adjectives like elderly are misused because it does mean frail not just number of years. The problem with elder (I like it myself) is that it implies wisdom. Elders were often the spiritual council in a tribe. Not all elders are wise. Those who are our elders just means those older than us which might not be old.

Language is a problem in a lot of areas in describing age. Like youth. Where does that end? I call my kids young who are 42 and almost 40. Well they seem young to me.

I just looked up 'elderly' (yet again). This time I looked it up in FIVE different dictionaries:

"eld•er•ly adj.
1. Being past middle age and approaching old age; rather old..
2. Of, relating to, or characteristic of older persons or life in later years.
n. pl. Older people considered as a group.
elderly adj : advanced in years; (1913)
Elderly a. Somewhat old; advanced beyond middle age; bordering on old
age; as, elderly people."

.... and so on. So until somebody shows me an actual dictionary entry that gives 'frail' as one of that word's meanings, I shall continue to feel irritated every time I hear someone say that 'elderly' means 'frail.'
I seem to be the only one around here who is fighting to hang on to the correct meaning of this word. Why? After all, if the word has somehow managed to collect some undesirable associations through popular usage - which seems to be the case - why can't we challenge that, just as we challenge all the other false assumptions about aging? I just don't get it!!

Gail Collins says today that old is in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/opinion/12collins.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

I suspect she hasn't actually tried being an elder in the workplace...

I think we have to adopt universal health care as a way to move older people out of the work force, at least those who could afford to retire but don't have health care and aren't old enough for medicare. I know many people in that situation. The 20 somethings are really getting restless and bored. They're ready to do bigger things, but there's no room for them yet. And Arnie keeps cutting our university budgets in California, the damned fool.

We need a lot more cross generational discussion, I think. Thanks for this forum, Ronnie. And I hope you'll all write Gail and let her know what it's really like, etc...

Marian Van Eyk McCain's and Alice's words certainly resonate with me!

"What's in a name? A rose by any other name still smells as sweet." Sorry Shakespeare, but I couldn't resist.

I think the real problem is stereotyping. If 'frail' brings up the image of a doddering old person haltingly using a cane to navigate from place to place, then they are thinking of me. And yet, I am not frail in my eyes. So it's all in the implications of the name, isn't it?

I vote for adding one word to elder; I think we of a certain age should start using the words "wise elders" when referring to the aged. Even a person suffering from dementia has, at one time, gained wisdom that the young cannot possess.

I'm just ruminating also.

Sometimes the dictionary definitions of words lose relevance as common usage takes over. "Elderly" may refer to a certain age in life, but the common usage of the term has added "frail" to its definition, whether or not we like it.

Rain's comment that the term "elder" can be problematic because it means "wise older person" in tribal parlance is interesting. I also associate the word with wisdom and that prevents me from using it comfortably as a general description of a certain age group, even though that would be grammatically correct. I wonder how many others feel that way.

I'm still partial to "senior" as a general term. I don't think it's been co-opted by common usage to have negative (or positive) characteristics automatically attributed to it.

Good post! Words are power.

Interesting post. My mother is 82, yet I can't think of her as elderly. In my mind I associate that term with frail, creaky old fusspots who can no longer take care of themselves. My mother still drives, lives alone, and manages most things for herself, but looking at her dispassionately I'd have to say she is a frail, creaky old fusspot whose robust health and continuing mental acuity lets her continue taking care of herself. If she's not elderly now, when will she be? Maybe she's elderly to strangers, but to me she is ageless and I can't apply a label to her.

Suppose we took elderly away from meaning someone in the latter stages of old age, what would we be left to use? Several mentioned the changing old age process and elderly has meant those who are not able to care for themselves to the same degree they had perhaps only 5 years earlier. So if we don't reserve that word for our last stages of old age, are we left with a word we can use? There definitely is a difference as we age for our abilities and our need for outside assistance.

I, too, share your emphasis on the significance of the words and language used to shape attitudes of our own and others.

When you first had discussions of selection of terms including elder vs older, I selected older as my first choice and I still prefer that term. I do understand the meaning intent for using the term elder and have and will continue to support you in that regard despite my personal preference.

I have great disdain for the use of "senior" and will be extremely happy if that term is permanently jettisoned. I was delighted last fall to learn that a committee on aging in our community has the intent to permanently deep six "senior," but hadn't been able to come up with an acceptable substitute word at that time. I'll have to check to see if they've made progress. I referred them to your blog and the discussion that had occurred here. I expect they can't afford to change it now, because of the economy, since the "Senior" Centers all have that word on the buildings exteriors.

As for elderly, I work in retirement communities. I suggest "elderly" might well be a term to describe those whose medical condition requires them to live in the skilled nursing level (although a few of them, are active enough to not be considered "elderly,) but most of those in Assisted Living and, certainly, those Independent -- many in their nineties could readily be considered elders, but they are differentiated from the less capable "elderly." Perhaps Marian's dictionary will catch up with a more accurate definition in keeping with the times, even if it is still considered coloquial by some dictionary editors.

I prefer your slogan as it currently is -- "older" -- as a significant differentiation from "old" given the broad age group beginning at age 50, and the younger ones you attract. You may consider me "old" if you like, but I'm "older" and will decide when I'm truly "old." No, I'm not avoiding my aging truth, but if you think you might be doing so, by referring to yourself as "older" rather than "old," then, by all means, you are old. ;-)

Whenever someone refers to me as "senior," I'm always tempted to call him or her "Junior."